AKQJ10's Poker Blog

From a recent thread on 2+2 it sounds like there’s some demand for blogs on big-bet Omaha 8 games.  Since learning BBO8 is the latest adventure on the circuitous route that is my poker career, I figure I can try to write some stuff worth reading.

Since I’m documenting my learning process, I can’t exactly pass my thoughts off as some sort of expert commentary.   However, if people start commenting on hands that I post, I will start posting more hands here, especially since I feel like a freeloader if I post more than a few hands a week on 2+2.

For the moment, I’m playing mostly PLO25, NLO25, and PLO10 on PokerStars.   I have some rather controversial views on short-stacking to learn a big-bet game. I totally get the reasoning behind the advice that you should always buy in full because you’ll only learn to play 100 bb stacks by getting experience playing them.    I get the reasoning, but I somewhat disagree with it. I buy in full at PL10, but I also think there’s value to buying in short at higher stakes, watching how people play, and putting less at risk if you have particular postflop leaks that would make playing a deeper stack -EV. The goal is to double up, and learn to play deeper stacks from doubling up.  Effectively it’s using people’s preflop mistakes to subsidize your own postflop growing pains.  So I’m gradually working my “comfortable” buyin up at PL/NL25. It’s presently around $10, although I’ve seen enough to make me think it’s probably neutral or +EV to start buying in for the full $25 soon.

I’ll still be grinding some tournaments, mostly NLHE, as my “volume” game but I’m going to make a point to set aside enough time for big bet O8 so as to post some interesting hands. And to that end…. hands follow
after the jump.

#PLO8-1

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo – 8 players – View hand 538930

The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $13.60

UTG: $12.35

UTG+1: $4.80

MP1: $10.05

MP2: $6.65

CO: $6.90

BTN: $15.10

Hero (SB): $10.15

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with 3 3 A 8

UTG calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 3 folds, BTN calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.50) T 2 8 (5 players)

Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds

Turn: ($1.50) 6 (2 players)

Hero checks, BTN bets $1.45, Hero calls $1.45

River: ($4.40) 2 (2 players)

Hero checks, BTN checks

Final Pot: $4.40

BTN shows Q 3 A 9 (HI: a pair of Deuces; LO: 8,6,3,2,A)

Hero shows 3 3 A 8 (HI: two pair, Eights and Deuces; LO: 8,6,3,2,A)

Hero wins $2.10

Hero wins $1.05

BTN wins $1.05

(Rake: $0.20)

I took a very uncharacteristic line for me starting on the turn. My check/call on the flop is specifically with the idea of turning a nut low so I can start betting the turn for value with NL + second pair ace kicker. I’m trying to get better at these thin value bets, and betting your nut low+one middling pair hands seems to be a huge part of how you get value in this game. (Thank you, yeahitsme, for explaining this in episode 2 of In a Nutshell.)

But on the turn I rethought matters. What caused me to shy away from potting the turn here is button’s stats: 14% AQ, 27% steal limped pot, 30/1 preflop, so I figure that whatever he’s betting on the flop may be way ahead of me and I just want to get to showdown. As it happens I’m a 55/45 equity favorite on the turn against his actual hand. If I think this is so perhaps I should be betting this for value if I think this is representative of his flop betting range.

What do you think?

PLO8-2
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo – 9 players – View hand 538928

The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $13.45

BTN: $7.55

SB: $12.15

BB: $4.70

UTG: $10.05

UTG+1: $6.90

UTG+2: $6.50

MP1: $14.10

Hero (MP2): $11.25

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with A 5 2 2

3 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.45, 2 folds, SB calls $0.40, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.45) 4 Q 7 (3 players)

SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.45) 6 (3 players)

SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $1, SB folds, MP1 folds

Final Pot: $1.45

Hero mucks A 5 2 2

Hero wins $1.40

(Rake: $0.05)

What’s interesting about this hand to me is the fact that I’m turning my hand face up, but no one cares enough to try to get me off a naked A2. I say I’m turning it face up because I can’t imagine many other hands I’d play this way — maybe a very baby flush. I’m probably betting any pat flush with a Broadway card + NLD or any set on the flop. So a good hand reader can tell I have naked A2, although they might not know that I know enough to fold it to a check/raise for pot.

But that’s the great thing about PL10 and sometimes PL25/NL25. Most opponents are just playing their own hands, trying to make the nuts, and aren’t really trying to read your hand.

PLO8-3
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Hi/Lo – 8 players – View hand 538955

The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $8.70

UTG+1: $13.00

MP1: $3.85

MP2: $5.30

CO: $3.65

BTN: $14.10

SB: $9.75

Hero (BB): $11.85

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 9 K 7 T

UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.45) 5 5 Q (4 players)

Hero checks, UTG bets $0.10, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero folds

Final Pot: $0.45

UTG wins $0.45

(Rake: $-0.00)

I threw this one in just because minbetting seems to be quite the rage in BBO8. From my observation it usually means that the bettor wants to slow down action on a draw or a weakish made hand, but not always. If I had to put UTG on a range here, it would be something like any five, QQ, any two diamonds, and occasionally a medium-strength hand like AQ or KK. This minbet highly polarizes his range to either nutlike hands or draws, and obviously there are more combinations of diamond draws. (Lest you think that PL10 players aren’t weak-leading with strength, though, think again; I certainly see people try to balance their ranges by doing this with both extremes in the same session.)

My equity against such a range is good enough to call a small bet in explicit odds (i.e., if we were all-in). But my implied odds are of course terrible, and I’m drawing dead if he really is weak-leading with a monster. I was tempted to call this minbet and then bet 2/3 pot on a diamond on the turn or river (bet/fold) or on a blank river just to get a sense of whether he’s playing his monsters this way. In the end I decided it wasn’t worth it trying get cheap information OOP, although I’d be really inclined to pay the 1bb for the info if I were in position.   That way if he’s not betting at least trips, or if he has bare trips and the flush card comes, I’m making him guess what to do on the turn.